Curse

Martin Alvito · Feb 11, 2009, 11:00 PM // 23:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

2) Prisoner's Dilemma. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner%27s_dilemma
Basically, people who do want to report leechers are afraid that other people won't report leechers, and then they will get dishonor instead. As such, nobody reports leachers out of fear that not enough people will report them (so therefore, not enough ever do).

You remind me of my students. The problem in a Prisoner's Dilemma is that all actors face a unilateral incentive to confess irrespective of what the other prisoner does. It's not that each prisoner is afraid that the other will confess; it's that both do better by confessing irrespective of the other prisoner's strategy.

Olson's collective action argument boils down to the idea that getting large groups of people to cooperate to produce socially efficient outcomes is impossible. Each actor basically faces a Prisoner's Dilemma writ large, because their marginal contribution to the desired outcome is small and will not impact whether the socially efficient outcome is attained.

The problem here is that using /report is stupid because it is costly. Everyone is incentivized to let other people use /report. If the punishment for leeching were sufficiently great, individual people might be willing to suffer that cost out of spite for leeching. Since the punishment is minimal, people just won't use the feature.

However, implementing a stiff punishment just creates McCarthyism.

glacialphoenix · Feb 11, 2009, 11:17 PM // 23:17

Quote:

As something additional to look at, I just learned that teams in AB that resign get 5 points of dishonor.

Um, yes. That's because you're leaving behind two other teams who didn't resign...?

Giga_Gaia · Feb 12, 2009, 07:15 AM // 07:15

Well thanks to the massive amount of leeching, Fort Aspenwood has essentially become a ghost town on the Luxon side.

...This is what happens when you give them an incentive to abuse the game by adding more faction gain, while having a pretty much ineffective system for dealing with the leeching and botting.

Anwyn · Feb 12, 2009, 07:44 AM // 07:44

I love the new system, sometimes, at night, when my connection is up to poo and I am trying to JQ, I get DCed a few times and log back in with a hex on me... it's really cool... But besides that, I do use it to report leachers and stuff, but I really don't think anything serious is done about it...

Here's an example, I RA'd alot about 8 months ago and there was a R/P Bot who played RA... I reported him crap loads and so did other players... The other night, I log on, and BAM, there he is, online in my friends list... BOTTING is illegal, but this kid is getting away with it... GG report system...

Div · Feb 12, 2009, 09:35 AM // 09:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by What Now

I no longer report leechers or bots. Too many times have I myself been given dishonorable for "lack of votes" while the rest of the team simply complained and never did actually report them.

That. When a team has 2 leechers, it basically means 4 out of your remaining 6 guys have to be smart enough to report them to stop them from getting faction. It also requires multiple players to report the leecher so you don't get dishonor points.

So I just gave up reporting for the most part unless I'm synced in with 3 other people I know.

Mangione · Feb 12, 2009, 09:53 AM // 09:53

I use to /report leechers, but often I end up being the only one in doing so.
Usually I wait several minutes before a /report, so if someone else reports I join them, if I am the first one I encourage the rest of the team to do the same.

I track how many reports for leeching I do in a time frame, and stop completely if I believe that further dishonor points will get me dishonorable status.

Lexar · Feb 12, 2009, 11:16 AM // 11:16

Yesterday there was a leecher, I called him on it, asking the team to report. Obviously the team didn't report because they're full of fail, and then the leecher whispers me saying 'haha' and also reports me. So I end up with a dishonorable because that one pushed me over the 10 minutes.

This by itself is already typical of how poorly the report system works.

That's when I realised, this is just 1 jerk, but what if there's more than 1 leecher, and they start reporting people that report them? It's not that hard to figure out who it is, they usually say something about it or stand still as they have to type /report. If leechers start reporting back nobody will ever want to use /report. If that happens the same system to stop leechers will be used to make sure nobody wants to report them anymore.

Giga_Gaia · Feb 12, 2009, 06:21 PM // 18:21

Personally I think it was better back when they didn't introduce the massive faction boost. At least games were actually enjoyable back then and we actually got full teams of PLAYERS who were there to PLAY. This is just ridiculous, and it won't be long until JQ suffers the same empty ghost town as FA is going through right now.

Celios · Feb 12, 2009, 10:05 PM // 22:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chocobo1

Because a 10 minute break is a really crushing blow to the leechers. People are too busy abusing the system to dish out 3 day bans to actually use it properly.

Bingo. What the hell does a leecher care if they can't play for 10-20 minutes? They're already not playing in the first place. At best, reporting reduces (not eliminates) the benefits of leeching. Just because leechers occasionally have to wait a few minutes between bouts of free faction doesn't change the fact that they're getting something for nothing. The worst that can ever happen is that they miss out on a fraction of what faction they leech.

Anet needs to start permabanning some of these assholes.

belladonna shylock · Feb 12, 2009, 11:32 PM // 23:32

oh, it gets much more deeper than just leeching and botting....just trust me on this one. A certain well, a LOT of rit (no that is not a characters name), that use to leech aspenwood. He's now on the luxon side and i'm pretty sure he plays a n/mes that makes minions then suicides them into the priests and then gunther. it's basically game over from the start. IE, he's using two accounts. one on luxon side and one on kurzick side. His luxon leech then collections the points for winning. That might be the most shady thing I've seen to date in this game...

Lexar · Feb 13, 2009, 12:23 AM // 00:23

Just played a match in FA on the Luxon side.

4 leechers.

You can't even call that a match anymore. I got 8 dishonorable points for reporting them, and they were reported 3 times so I was worse off than they were. This is just not fair.

You know what, screw this. I can put up with 1 or 2 leechers because I'm such a great guy, I know others have also quit for that reason. But this is the last straw, it used to be 1 leecher every so often and then it got to the point where it was 1 to 2. It's a trend, and more and more regular leechers are emerging. It's only going to get worse as time passes. I'm not going to play this crap again untill Anet perma bans these jerks.

To Anet: If you give me the tools I would moderate for free and ban them with as near to 100% accuracy as it gets. Or just give out dishonorable hexes that last for several months.

What Now · Feb 13, 2009, 05:37 AM // 05:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lexar

Just played a match in FA on the Luxon side.

4 leechers.

You can't even call that a match anymore. I got 8 dishonorable points for reporting them, and they were reported 3 times so I was worse off than they were. This is just not fair.

You know what, screw this. I can put up with 1 or 2 leechers because I'm such a great guy, I know others have also quit for that reason. But this is the last straw, it used to be 1 leecher every so often and then it got to the point where it was 1 to 2. It's a trend, and more and more regular leechers are emerging. It's only going to get worse as time passes. I'm not going to play this crap again untill Anet perma bans these jerks.

To Anet: If you give me the tools I would moderate for free and ban them with as near to 100% accuracy as it gets. Or just give out dishonorable hexes that last for several months.

Because people see the trend and follow it.

Botting silently > telling someone to F off once in your life.

As they say erm not sure if I'ma get this right but its sorta like...

1)Learn to bot
2)Bot
3)Profit!
4)???

Or something like that :P if people get off with it all the time others see this and others figure oh well it's a dead game let's ask google what programs the best.

Btw I do not want dishonorable for raging 4 healer teams in RA who refuse to resign just as much as people refuse to /report because they have something to prove staying up for 8 minutes while they jerk off to how much their orison heals for overlooking any prots put on them x.x so yea, GIMME FREEDOM OR GIVE ME DEATHHHHHHHHH o.o no not seriously I'll go with dishonorable.

But I guess when they make RA actually random and not put a synced guild team vs a monk and 3 healer rits like SURPRISE it'll all be ironed out...if..

Dmitri3 · Feb 13, 2009, 06:58 AM // 06:58

I report leechers, but I have it ironed out:
I can report up to 4 players in one hour so not to gain a dishonorable status, considering I don't get reported or leave mid-match. Then I can either not gain any dishonor for an hour or simply take a one hour break.

And frankly, if I'm getting so many leechers/reports/disconnects, why wouldn't I take a break and do something else?

BoredJoe · Feb 13, 2009, 09:39 AM // 09:39

Apparently the developers play the game too, can't see why they can't drop by FA and take some action.